former president george w. bush and laura bush there as well. you have hillary and president obama together. yet on the outside it appears as if she maybe wants to distance herself, i guess because of obama care. >> she has a high wire act she has to perform right now. because if she does run, she worked for the president. but yet she doesn't want to be associated with him if the health care rollout and the rest of this goes south. she has to balance what's good for her. and it doesn't look right now that being aligned with obama is that good for her. >> it's interesting, because i remember when i first started in journalism in the early '90s. we were talking about hillary care. it really does go all the way back to hillary clinton. but understandably now, with all of the debacle of the rollout, howard, she doesn't want to be associated with this. right? >> that is true. but at the same time, she doesn't want to alienate president obama's core supporters, particularly african-american voter who is she may need in 2016. james carville, long time